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What It's Like to Approach Climate Change with Humor

November 29, 2023 • Elizabeth Garr • Season 6 • Episode 6

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For most of us, climate change is a heavy topic. Ethan Brown has made it his mission to make environmental issues more approachable and understandable--by using humor. His website and podcast, aptly titled "The Sweaty Penguin," is able to cut through the noise and the doom-and-gloom of the climate conversation with late-night-comedy-style monologues and in-depth conversations with leading global experts on a variety of environmental issues. In this episode, Ethan shares how he went from being a college student with an interest in satire (but not necessarily climate change) to using his voice--literally--for this important cause. Ethan also gives concrete advice we all can use to help the climate crisis (and no, you don't necessarily have to become vegan and bike to work every day!).

In this episode:

01:48: Why and how Ethan got into taking a humorous approach to climate change
05:04: How The Sweaty Penguin creates episodes--"deep dives," monologues, experts, and more
07:48: How Ethan weaves "the philosophy of comedy" into his podcasts
09:38: Dealing with climate change as a scientific--not a political--issue
12:54: Why Ethan feels optimistic about the future
15:46: Five things we all can do to help the climate crisis
19:59: Addressing the vegan vs. meat-eating debate in the climate change conversation
27:36: What Ethan has learned about himself and about the issues in the past few years

Want to know more about Ethan and The Sweaty Penguin?

Follow them on Instagram: @ethanbrown5151, @sweatypenguinpod
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Ethan: 0:08

mission is to make climate change less overwhelming, less politicized and more fun. Seeing the way that people resonate with our content on both sides of the aisle, I'm just too inspired to stop. I feel like we're doing something really special and anything I can do in service of that, I want to do.

Elizabeth: 0:30

Hello, and welcome to What It's Like To, the podcast that lets you walk in someone else's shoes and live vicariously through their unique experiences. I'm your host, former journalist, Elizabeth Pearson Garr. And each episode, I'll be asking a new interviewee all the what, why, when, and wheres of how they do what they do. If they can do it, so can you. The words climate change make most of us feel pretty anxious or worried or maybe frustrated, probably not uplifted. Ethan Brown set out to change all that. He started a program called The Sweaty Penguin, which brings levity to these important issues. He uses late night comedy style monologues and expert interviews to cut through the doom and gloom of the climate conversation. The Sweaty Penguin is in partnership with PBS's Peril and Promise, with the goal of making climate change less overwhelming, less politicized, and more fun. Ethan, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you here to talk about this really important topic.

Ethan: 1:36

Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Elizabeth: 1:39

Thank you. How did you decide to get into talking about climate change and to take this different take on it to take a more lighthearted approach to it?

Ethan: 1:48

So when I first learned about climate change, probably around high school, I found it really scary, really overwhelming, but not interesting. It was not something I wanted to go learn about. And so I was going to college for film and television. I wanted to be a storyteller. So I felt like I needed a story to tell. So I took a few environmental classes. electives. And that was when I realized that there was so much more to this than the doom and gloom headlines that we see there are a lot of nuances and critical thinking involved with these issues. So many different solutions out there, a lot of progress that's already happened. And so I felt like that was something I wanted to communicate. And I ended up getting a dual degree with environmental analysis and policy. At the same time, I was running BU's satire publication, The Bunion, for two years. We grew it from just myself when I took over to 90 people over two years, which was an amazing opportunity, but it also taught me a lot about how to make something overwhelming into something entertaining. Combining both that comedy interest with all that I was learning in these classes, I had the idea for The Sweaty Penguin in early quarantine. And now three years later, here we are.

Elizabeth: 3:02

And so it started as a podcast or what was the first germ of what it was?

Ethan: 3:07

So the very, very first iteration of The Sweaty Penguin was actually the summer going into freshman year of college. I wanted to learn more about the environment. And so I started a, satire news site where I was writing, Onion style articles on environmental news stories, and it was a good experience for me to start learning, but it didn't really work because people weren't following environmental news, so they didn't get the jokes, so I did that for a few months and then called it, but I always loved the concept of using comedy to turn climate change less overwhelming. So once quarantine hit, I was watching a lot of John Oliver and Hasan Minhaj at the time stuck inside and I realized this might be the right way to do it, to take on specific issues and inject comedy that way.

Elizabeth: 3:54

yeah, I think it's a really brilliant take because it makes it approachable, I think so many of us just feel like we know that this is the most pressing issue of our time. And yet it feels so hard to take in, it's like, Okay, I have electric cars or I should have less of a carbon footprint or it just feels like how can I even make an impact another depressing story, another overwhelming anecdote, and here you have this approach to really draw people in and educate them at the same time.

Ethan: 4:24

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the comedy can draw people in, but so much of what we do is also about, putting forth solutions to these issues and showing how these solutions aren't sacrifices. They're things that can help the environment, the economy, health, justice, just general livelihoods. I think that brings a lot of hope and excitement to some of these issues as well. And so hopefully comedy might get people in the door, but I hope it's our substance that keeps people around.

Elizabeth: 4:50

can you walk me through how you go about creating an episode? will you just, hear about a topic or an issue going on and then get into the substance of it and then create the comedy around it? Or how do you flesh the whole thing out?

Ethan: 5:04

So we have two primary types of episodes. One we call them our deep dives because penguin pun. And those have been, since the beginning, basically We pick a issue and we, do a monologue that breaks down how the issue affects the environment, the economy, health, justice, security, whatever it intersects with. And then in our second segment, we focus on solutions. So what are a variety of different options for how we can move forward? How we can address different elements of the issue. And in those episodes, we'll bring in an expert interview as well. We bring on professors and we've had on, folks from, I believe now, 18 countries and six continents. and we can take their academic research and translate it into normal people language for you and me,

Elizabeth: 5:48

which is a skill in its own right to do that.

Ethan: 5:51

we had a expert early on who was so thankful because his family finally understood what he did for a living. So those episodes, we actually pursue the expert. First, we'll find someone whose research intrigues us. Figure out a way we can present it in a more compelling way than an academic paper. We'll bring them in, we'll do an interview, and then we will pair up a researcher and a comedy writer on our team. So the researcher will create an outline, we'll have a meeting and talk about it, then they'll write. A, joke free draft of the script, and then the comedy writer will come in, they'll add jokes, but they'll also do a pass where they're like, this makes no sense, or this is confusing, so I think that collaboration is really useful. Then it will come to me, I'll do a bunch of revisions, record, and send it off to our editor. That whole process, can take, sometimes even three to six months. Then we have our tip of the iceberg episode, those are shorter and those are more on whatever the big climate news story of the week is. I'll write those myself. I usually try to offer some sort of either contextualization or opinion or something to Add something new to whatever the conversation is around that story and help our listeners understand it. So that I'll write a draft, send it off to our comedy writers, they'll add some jokes, send it back, we'll record and edit, and that one we turn around in about a week.

Elizabeth: 7:16

It's interesting that you have comedy, writers like actual professional comedy writers, quote, unquote, like the late night shows How do you know how far to go? I guess because These are serious topics. They have very serious implications, but you are. Taking a comedic lighthearted spin on them. So are you just using your own best judgment on lighthearted, take to, or, how far to go with some of these jokes?

Ethan: 7:42

it's actually pretty rare for that to be the conversation, which I think surprises people, but really, I was thinking recently about learning about the philosophy of comedy in college, and there were two theories that I believe it was Aristotle who put forth at least one of them,

Elizabeth: 8:00

philosophy and comedy. I like it.

Ethan: 8:02

theory and incongruity theory and superiority theory is the idea that we you. laugh because we feel superior to something. So if we see someone with a silly mask on and then Oh, that's embarrassing for you and we laugh or, sometimes that can be taken too far, of course, but on the flip side, incongruity theory is where we laugh because we see two things that we just did not expect to fit together. So that I think it can be a more nuanced type of humor, but it is a lot of ways that a set up and a punchline is we're familiar with, like the punchline will surprise us. And that's why we laugh. So I think that a lot of our humor is based on that second one, the incongruity theory we see in a lot of these stories that there's just strange combinations of things that happen that we can comment on, or we can draw a silly analogy, or we can write a skit that no one would expect coming related to a story. So in that sense, I think we do have to be mindful. But in general, I think using that mindset makes it pretty simple to at least avoid creating humor that doesn't seem befitting of the seriousness of the issue.

Elizabeth: 9:16

That makes a lot of sense to me. And I think sometimes it's not humor at the expense of someone or of serious topic, but it is also more just bringing it down to earth, like bringing it to a human level also, and just making it not so serious. Yes. That can be lighthearted in its own right. It doesn't have to be cutting.

Ethan: 9:37

Yeah, exactly.

Elizabeth: 9:38

that that's, Climate change has unfortunately become very politicized in our culture so how do you deal with that getting away from this right versus left issue it actually is. a scientific climate issue. So how do you frame that in your

Ethan: 9:54

I feel very fortunate that I grew up in a town that was about 50 50 liberal and conservative. So I've always been exposed to both sides and I've always found it interesting to learn from both sides. And I think getting into environment, I very early would write articles and I'd send it to liberal friends and conservative friends and everyone would like them. And so I realized I had a knack for Reaching both sides. So that was a big reason why I wanted to start something. I felt that there just wasn't a lot of environmental news that didn't have some political bent to it. And I could maybe provide that through my work. So I think there's a number of ways in which we go about it. When we talk about solutions, we try to present a variety of options and discuss the pros and cons of all of them. So I'm always thinking about what types of policies might people on the left like, what might people on the right like, and how can I communicate both of them and communicate the pros and cons of both of them. Similarly, with problems, I try to explore, like I said, how it affects not just the environment, but the economy, health, justice. I think when we can have more of a tangible connection to an issue, and it's not just about some abstract climate thing. I think that can often bring people in more. And then lastly, I think really at the core of what we're doing is trying to combat climate anxiety and climate anxiety, I think, is a bigger term than people realize. I think when we hear that term, we think of young people who are just freaked out and nihilism, doom and gloom type

Elizabeth: 11:32

yeah,

Ethan: 11:32

reaction, but I think it also extends to people who deny climate change or people who are indifferent about climate change. I think that anxiety is feeling overwhelmed, feeling anxious. It can lead us to disengage with an issue. So sometimes you might go too far and just feel doomed other times. You might try to just put the whole thing out of mind entirely and so when we're targeting that emotion, I think that we bring in all of those groups even though they seem opposed to each other. I think that they're actually different reactions to a similar phenomenon, so we're able to bring in everybody by doing that, and then I hope our content can lead them to some interesting paths forward.

Elizabeth: 12:14

Yeah. I think it does because we were saying, it's not a political issue. It doesn't have to do with politics. It has to do with the environment and it has to do with science. So we all need to be concerned with it. No matter where we stand on the political spectrum. So it's a worthy conversation for everyone to have. So I'm glad that you're engaging people in it. Do you ever start to feel gloomy or anxious about it? living in this all the time because our world is so full. We've got the wildfires and snow in Los Angeles last year. And, we have so many odd occurrences. We're just seeing it more and more. And do you ever start to get down about it? Or you continue to be energized by. the topic of your work.

Ethan: 12:54

There are some times where I've felt down, but more often than not, I feel optimistic. One that made me feel a little overwhelmed was, I shouldn't say a little last year, the Guardian released a investigation on carbon bombs, which are oil and gas projects that from start to finish would emit 1, 000, 000, 000 tons or more of carbon dioxide and for context in 2019, the entire world emitted 59 billion tons of carbon dioxide. So 000 for a single project is a lot and their investigation found that around the world, there are 195 planned oil and gas carbon bombs that together would emit 646 billion tons of CO2 and that alone would blow past our climate goals. Now, as I've researched this, I've learned that assumes that we extract all of the oil and gas in the ground at every single one of these sites, which will Not happen. It's just not economically viable to do that. But it's a big deal. And what I did to try to get my head around it and make it less overwhelming for people is we decided to start just. Going down the list one by one, and now every third deep dive of ours is an episode on a specific carbon bomb, and by hyper localizing it like that, we've found that each of these sites has a a variety of issues but a variety of solutions that are unique to that region and a variety of stories that are unique to that region And so I think each time we go down that list I find more and more hope within each of these stories about how we can move forward and I think that goes to the bigger picture. We try to break down these issues one by one and In doing that, we find all these solutions. We find all this progress, all this tangible reason to be optimistic. And so that's why, even though we do run into some sad stories, I ultimately come out the other side feeling hopeful and optimistic.

Elizabeth: 14:58

Good. That's reassuring as someone who spends their day in and day out on this. I appreciate that. advice do you give to people for living their lives? Because I hear both sides of the story, frankly, I know people who try to do every little thing they can from driving an electric car to composting and then I hear other people say all that stuff is just a drop in the bucket because the real issues are. what our government is doing and who cares about the electric cars. It's how many plane flights you're taking. And, people are justifying things left and right. And so what do you say to people, just individuals about how we can each contribute to this global crisis?

Ethan: 15:40

Yeah, I think it's a tricky conversation because I think both of those perspectives have merit and to me, where I think individual action can be most beneficial is in creating community level change. And so with that in mind, the five things I like to tell people, one are you can find low hanging fruit. So for me, for example, unless I'm coming on a show like this, I'm not a big fashion person. So I will always try to wear my clothes as long as they last. And when they have holes in them, I turn them into pajama shirts and I never really go out and buy the new fast fashion trends, which have a large carbon and water footprint associated with them on the flip side, I. really love meat, and a plant based diet can be more effective, but it's just not something that I can incorporate into my life, both realistically, and also I have food allergies that would prevent it. So I think patting myself on the back for what I can do well, but not feeling bad about the things I'm not as good at is really important. Second is to Do your research so you mentioned electric vehicles and those are a very promising solution, but at the same time is a lower carbon footprint to drive your current vehicle to the end of its life. And then buy an electric vehicle as opposed to junking a perfectly good gasoline powered car for the new trendy EV, because it takes emissions to create the vehicle as well as the gasoline that you burn. Things like that. It's important to understand the nuances of these issues and do your research. So you can actually have the desired impact. Number three is to uplift others who do good things. So I know there's a lot of vegan bashing in the U S I'm not a vegan myself, but I have the utmost respect for anyone who's able to do that. I always try to encourage them in the right direction. But there are actually studies that have shown that products have their sales tank when they're labeled vegan. it's...

Elizabeth: 17:35

Oh, wow.

Ethan: 17:36

I Think it's important that... even if we can't do everything ourselves, we encourage others who are doing good things and don't make them feel bad for it. Number four is to use your voice. For some people, that might be activism or protesting, but that wasn't right for me. I love nuance way too much to write something on a sign. I hate crowds and loud noises, but writing and podcasting and communicating was something I was good at. So that's what I decided to do. If someone else is into social media or just doing stuff in their home or their work or whatever, that's all well and good. And then lastly, and what I think is most important is, talk to people you disagree with, and it doesn't have to be about climate or politics. It can be about books or movies or sports. But if we get better at having those conversations, I think it can make a real difference. Historically, we've seen that in the 1970s, we had a Democratic Congress and Republican presidents. Nixon and Ford, and in those 6 years, we passed the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, National Environmental Policy Act, Endangered Species Act, established the Environmental Protection Agency, established the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, had the first Earth Day, and a whole lot more in a divided government, and that was because people were willing to talk to people they disagreed with and find common ground on that important issue. So if today we can have those conversations better and we don't have to be friends, but we can at the very least listen to each other and learn each other's perspectives. It can really make a big difference in an environmental policy.

Elizabeth: 19:04

I couldn't agree more. And in just sort of general civility, think that in these last I don't know that we truly are. I think we're actually have much more in common than we do in opposition to another, if we would just have the conversations, clearly, there are some differences of opinions, but if we would talk to one another and talk to people that we do have some differences with and try to understand where we disagree, why we disagree, try to understand where that person is coming from and try to understand some of our commonalities. We're not as far apart as we might be, and we could come to some more consensus. So that's a point well taken.

Ethan: 19:42

I appreciate that.

Elizabeth: 19:43

You mentioned vegans, and I know you've done a lot of podcast episodes on foods and beverages, and think some people have this notion that stopping climate change requires people to change their diets, and you mentioned that, you you still eat meat. So can you address that Issue

Ethan: 19:59

So there is substance to the idea that a meat based diet will have a bigger footprint than a plant based diet, and the reason why is just biology. There's something called a feed conversion ratio where you measure the amount of feed it takes to grow a animal 1 kilogram. And so it might take 1. 8 or 2 kilograms of feed to grow a chicken 1 kilogram. With cattle, it can take, Six kilograms of feed to grow a cow one kilogram. So that's just a mathematical, biological fact where it takes more resources to create meat than it does to create. plant based food. That said, the fact that a cow can turn grass, which has no nutritional value, into protein is pretty remarkable. That a pig can turn corn into bacon. It's a magic trick I would love to see. So I think that there is merit to those foods, even though it does require more resources. That said, there are other aspects of this that can be addressed. So I think there's a lot of fame around the issue of cows belching methane Methane is a greenhouse gas that is around 29 times as potent as carbon dioxide over a 100 year period. But we can actually reduce those emissions. We had an expert on one of the leading researchers in trying to add seaweed to cattle feed to reduce the methane reaction in their stomachs and lead to less methane emissions. So regenerative Agriculture practices, we can rotate crops, we can do all these different things. So when we get so focused in on the diets, I think it misses the bigger picture. There are ways we can improve the carbon footprints of all of these foods. And furthermore, what is a really important conversation is. How climate change affects the foods as opposed to how the foods affect climate change. So we have a lot of episodes on a variety of products and way more often than not, we're talking about how these foods are responding to drought, to new storms, to higher temperatures, colder temperatures. That's an important issue as well that I think goes under discussed.

Elizabeth: 22:17

yeah. I remember a couple years ago seeing that in California, lettuce was so much more expensive because of the drought. And, you could go on and on with all the different crops that are affected by climate change. I also was interested, so you're a member of gen Z. Are you generation Z. Is that where, yeah, you are. So I think a lot of people think of Gen Z as being, very activist. You'd mentioned writing the signs, being out protesting and all of that. And like you had said, you take a different approach. You're not doing that. you found your niche doing podcasts? I think it's a great example of people find an issue, find something you care about and find the way that you feel like you can best express yourself.

Ethan: 22:57

I never would have expected to be a podcast host. I was the one making fun of in college before I started it. But I think in quarantine in particular, it ended up being the right medium for us. One, because podcast audiences skew younger, skew more educated, skew more intellectual. And so we had a better chance of reaching our desired audience there. I think that, yeah. It would have been very difficult to do something with video in my parents' basement during it gave us the ability to add comedy in a way that was different from writing. We could incorporate sound effects and skits and that kind of thing. Whereas in written form, there's only so much that you can really do. So I've enjoyed the format. I think that it has its pros and cons. It can be easier to get people to read something you wrote as opposed to a podcast, but I'm really proud of the work that we're doing and I'm glad that it's resonating with people.

Elizabeth: 23:56

How did you get this collaboration with PBS?

Ethan: 23:59

So I interned with them in the summer of 2019. And at the time they had two initiatives, one, Peril and Promise, which was on climate change. The other, called Chasing the Dream, was on poverty and opportunity in America. They've since added two more, one called Extreme Hate on anti Semitism, racism, extremism, and the other is called Preserving Democracy. that department basically. It's a really small team. I think it's six of them running four initiatives. And so they work a lot with outside content creators to create content. They'll commission documentaries. They'll work with internal partners like PBS NewsHour, Metro Focus Amanpour but they'll also go outside the company. And I had interned with them. I knew that. And then during COVID, they were clearly having trouble getting content. One of their big shows concluded its run. And so I reached out maybe eight months into The Sweaty Penguin. And I was like, Hey, look, we're making this really cool show. I know you guys need content. We could really use some funding so we can continue this. And we struck up a licensing deal and that's been going ever since. And it's been really great to get that recognition and that notoriety as we've moved forward.

Elizabeth: 25:16

So the partnership is pretty much they're a sponsor and then they help promote you or do you also do specific work

Ethan: 25:24

They license our episodes, they distribute them, so you can find them on pbs. org, and they pay us a licensing fee, which is a significant portion of our funding today.

Elizabeth: 25:35

And how big is your team?

Ethan: 25:37

Our team is around 15 of us, besides myself everyone is very part time, and it's all college students and recent grads for Gen Z and by Gen Z, and it's an amazing group of people to work with, and so cool to have a group that is environmental majors, comedy people, social media people, journalists Sound editors, video editors it's a very special group

Elizabeth: 26:01

I just think it's great that you came up with this idea. Then you, just made it happen. Like those are the people that I like to talk to on my podcasts are people who've have a passion and I'm sure you've had some setbacks. Everyone I've talked to has, hit some walls, but they keep. pursuing, right? you keep pushing forward to achieve your dreams. I really appreciate people like you who pursue something that they love.

Ethan: 26:23

that means a lot. Our mission is to make climate change less overwhelming, less politicized and more fun. And people ask me where I see myself in 5 or 10 years. Whatever I can be doing in pursuit of that goal is where I see myself. And certainly we've had our fair share of setbacks. We still have a lot to figure out particularly on the financial side, but seeing the way that people resonate with our content on both sides of the aisle, I'm just too inspired to stop. I feel like we're doing something really special and anything I can do in service of that, I want to do.

Elizabeth: 27:00

It's great. I applaud you for it. I think you have a great voice for in a really important issue and I love the name. Was that just something that came to you one day? Sweaty penguin?

Ethan: 27:10

It was actually my dad who thought of the name. like I said, I was trying to start that satire news site and my dad had the idea and he always says, I'm free to use it for whatever I want. I just have to credit him anytime someone asks that question.

Elizabeth: 27:25

Okay. Thank you Dad. I guess the last thing I'm curious about this entire process, whether it's about learning about climate change itself or about just starting the business podcasting, What is something or a few things that has surprised you the most you learned about yourself or about the issues?

Ethan: 27:43

That's a good question. About myself, I think that, like I said, I had a little bit of team management experience, especially running the Bunion in college and growing that team. I think it's very different when we are actually creating something that isn't a student club, but outside of school. I think in some ways it's very similar. You still have to motivate people to want to be there. It's not just, hey, we're paying you. So do your job. You need to keep engaged, but there's very different challenges that come up with regard to running an organization like that particularly for us having our team. So young. It also leads to a lot of turnover where people are getting new opportunities in their careers. And I've always tried to, support that and work through that. So I give people glowing recommendations when they're ready to go to their next thing. And we are doing hiring all the time to try to find the next leaders on our team. And so we've

Elizabeth: 28:53

that takes a lot of time.

Ethan: 28:55

So we've had a lot of great people come through and there have been times where like last year we lost half of our original team in about a month. And that took a long time to recover from and figure out who could take their place. now we're in a place where only three of our team members, myself included, have been here longer than six months and we're fine. I'm so proud of the fact that we've figured out how to handle that managerial challenge and keep our team together. From a. Issues perspective, I think something that surprised me in a good way, number 1, just how many solutions there are and how much progress has happened. The U. S. carbon emissions peaked in 2005 and have come down 16 percent since then and are continuing to, and we never talk about that, but something else is, in college, I learned about a carbon lag. Basically, the way carbon dioxide works, we emit it into the atmosphere. It's there. It's absorbing infrared radiation. That kind of creates this blanket that warms the planet. Carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for over 100 years, so there was a concern that once humans stop emitting carbon dioxide, all this carbon dioxide that we have already emitted is still there, still absorbing infrared radiation. And as a result would still warm the planet. And then we'd be in a situation where we're not emitting carbon, climate change is still happening, and that was going to be a pain in the neck to communicate not to mention the impacts that would come from that. In reality, what scientists have learned recently is that effect is real, but at the same time, our oceans in particular, also forests and other carbon sinks, but largely our oceans, are sucking that carbon out of the atmosphere, and that process has a cooling effect, and the warming effect from the carbon lag plus the cooling effect from the carbon absorption cancel each other out. And it means that once humans stop emitting carbon dioxide, within about a few years, the climate would stabilize where it is. And that to

Elizabeth: 31:00

Wow.

Ethan: 31:01

really encouraging because it means once we get to carbon neutral it would be ideal to continue and try to get carbon negative and cool the planet down to a more natural level, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel now. This can happen in our lifetimes for us to see climate change stop and even reverse. So that was really exciting to me. And I think that gives a lot more motivation to pursue climate solutions.

Elizabeth: 31:25

but we need to keep our eye on the ball. We can't let up on this because we're not there yet.

Ethan: 31:30

Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth: 31:31

Thank you so much. I've learned a lot and it's been great getting to know you and learning more about Sweaty Penguin.

Ethan: 31:37

Yeah. Thank you again for having me. It was a lot of fun.

Elizabeth: 31:43

I'll admit, I fall into the camp of people who feel pretty drained by the topic of global warming, so it was good for me to talk to someone whose mission is to make climate change less overwhelming, less politicized, and more fun. Here are my takeaways from my conversation with Ethan. Number one, follow your interests and stay open to new ideas. Ethan wanted to be a storyteller. He had no idea he'd end up using humor to educate people about climate issues. Two, don't just focus on problems, come up with solutions. Turns out there are reasons to feel optimistic, even about climate change. Three, Be thoughtful and intentional about how your actions can be most impactful regarding climate change. 4. Uplift people who are doing good things. Vegans and others who are making concerted efforts to help the environment deserve our support, not our ridicule. 5. Use your voice. Protesting, writing, calling your legislators, podcasting, whatever best suits you, your skill set and your personality. And finally, number six, talk to people you disagree with. It doesn't have to be about climate or politics. It can be about books or movies or sports. if we get better at having those conversations and listening to other people, it can make a real difference. I'd like to thank Ethan Brown for talking with me and for the good work he's doing. You can learn more about Ethan and the Sweaty Penguin in the show notes for this episode. I'll also recap his five tips for how we each can help the climate crisis. If you like listening to people who are working to make positive changes in the world, check out episode 32 with teacher, writer, dad, and child advocate, Matt King. And episode 28 with Megan Wizceb, who turned her personal heartbreak into hope for others. I'm so grateful for your support of this podcast. If you're not already subscribing, please do, and please tell a few friends about it too. I'm Elizabeth Pearson Garr. Thanks for being curious about What It's Like.